Author Topic: Race Mixing = Communism?  (Read 1467 times)

Offline Postremo

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Race Mixing = Communism?
« Topic Start: November 23, 2010, 07:06:03 AM »
These are some loosely connected reflections. There might be something worth watching on Youtube if this gets a bit tortuous or boring.

Race is class - this is the point that won't go away. My cursory look at how the American race 'question' presents itself has always taken me toward two topics: class, and anticommunism. One cannot talk about class without talking about labour, and therefore about how labour is managed, stratified, waged, etc. Therefore, one cannot talk about race, in a Myrdalian way, as if it was just a set of dogma rather than a socially constructed institution with decisive implications for the class structure. How can one talk about the suburbanisation of 'blue collar' labour without considering 'white flight'? And how can the decline of 'blue collar' manufacturing labour be considered apart from 'globalisation', or rather the global stratificaton of labour created by capitalism in the era of white supremacy? Equally, any history of anticommunism is incomplete without at least discussing how it was initially conceived as a racial counter-conspiracy: against the Jews, against Germans, against African Americans, and finally against Russkies plotting to have unfit countries achieve "premature independence". The liberal and social democratic variants of anticommunism did not perform any better in this respect than the conservative variants.

The thread that ties anticommunism and racism at a conceptual level, I think, is the issue of "self-government", ie democracy. In American racial thinking, self-government is a cultural state attained by Anglo-Saxons and Teutons, a condition in which people are able - on account of god-chosenness, race experience, and fine blood lines - to control their primitive urges toward sin. This was not just a conservative position, but a staple of turn-of-the-century progressivism. In contemporary discourse, one doesn't speak of Anglo-Saxons and Teutons but one may, with a certain respect for racial propriety, discuss the prospects for self-government in similarly culturalist and mystifying terms. This is an art that the neoconservatives refined, but it is not just reactionaries who hold to such views. In a very contemporary parlance, the liberal religious philosopher Marilyn McCord Adams has expressed the belief that the persistence of evil proves that people are no more equipped for self-government than they ever were: she, perhaps unreflectively, referred to the spectre of sometimes genocidal 'failed states' as examples of what she meant. Communism, being in theory the most advanced state of self-government available to humanity, represents for such thought both an unrealisable utopia and a recognisable dystopia. For southern segregationists, self-government for African Americans was unrealisable (utopia), and the attempt to impose it would inevitably result in such disorder that some possibly 'totalitarian' dictatorship would emerge to keep order (dystopia).

A notorious image from the history of the segregated south is that of white conservative protesters bearing placards that read: "Race Mixing Is Communism". This image was chosen for the cover of Jeff Woods' Black Struggle, Red Scare (Louisiana State University Press, 2004). I think there is a commonsensical reaction to this, which is to conclude that the protesters were either hysterical and deluded, or instrumentalising a much more widely accepted anticommunist discourse for the purposes of promoting an unpopular racial agenda (I think Woods' case is a mixture of these two). Given the alarmist tone of reactionary propaganda in the US, and given the fact that American southerners have, since the Wilson era at least, represented themselves as the most patriotic Americans of all, these commonsensical conclusions seem to be more than justified. But I think they are wrong. My suggestion is to take the reactionaries seriously. When they said "Race Mixing Is Communism", they meant something important and relevant by it. It is manifestly wrong to think that 'race mixing' is identical with communism, but the claim was not just a ruse, nor was it blind panic. For such people, white supremacy was meritocratic. It reflected the innate, natural differences between people (and, as a corollary, the difference between the white labourer and the white owner was just as natural, if mitigated by blood solidarity). To attack the race system was to introduce a principle that was, to them, a state-sponsored attack on a well-maintained, meritocratic free enterprise society.

In the same way, you'll notice, when bourgeois ideologues want to mystify class relations without reference to race, they reach for the same combination of naturalising and culturalist tropes. Either the allocation of rewards and punishments reflects some innate biological differences between people, or it corresponds to a kind of ethnicity in which class itself is spoken of in 'native' or 'tribal' terms - one's "roots", "tradition", the signature cloth cap, the pub, the East End argot and lifestyle (as described in various sentimental best-sellers), etc. Daniel Patrick Moynihan famously attributed to African American culture a "tangle of pathologies", which he held responsible for inhibiting their social advancement and maintaining them in a state of disproportionate poverty. Similarly, UK politicians are inclined to interpret the polarisation of wealth within Britain's class structure as a result of the unchecked laziness, decadence and sexual promiscuity of the 'underclass'.

One could conclude from this that race overlaps with class in mainly discursive ways, but this would be to miss the point. The point about the "colour bar", whether it operates formally or de facto, is that it excludes non-white labour from certain positions, or substantially reduces their participation in those roles. These positions are sought after for the levels of skill, responsibility, autonomy and rewards entailed in them. But those social facts about the job - skill, responsibility, autonomy and rewards - are interpreted by racist institutions as natural or cultural facts. Thus, 'whiteness' = skill, responsibility, self-government and the rewards those qualities deliver. In much the same way, the socially produced imperative to drive workers harder and extract more free overtime labour is interpreted as a particular expression of one's culture and personality, ie. as a reflection of one's 'flexibility'. So, what race does is not just overlap with class, but constitute it, rendering its demarcations more intelligible in the terms of bourgeois ideology. The imperative of anticommunism in such a system being to defend, with greater or lesser reservations, the balance of wealth and power in capitalist societies, it follows that the disproportionate distribution of non-whites among the unemployed, poor and imprisoned - however lamentable it may be for liberal anticommunists - is not too far from meritocratic justice.

There are other ways to come at this topic, but the basic relationship is as crucial to understand today as it ever was. After all, as Tim Wise has pointed out, the delirious charges of socialism against the Obama administration are not neutral with respect to race - neither Clinton nor Bush faced similar charges over ambitious programmes of government spending, whether on healthcare or on the military. There is surely a sense in which socialism, for some people, "is little more than racist code for the longstanding white fear that black folks will steal from them". If it's not the DVD player, it's nothing less than the country itself that "black folks" are supposed to be eloping with. And a good white conservative meets such a threat as he would any common burglar: gun in hand, trigger happy, fully convinced that the life he is about to annihilate is worth less than a toaster. The defence of property is, in American politics, cosubstantial with the defence of the prevalent racial order. The 'American dream', (a PR initiative floated in the 1930s but really taking hold during the anticommunist hunts of the 1950s), was always white, and so it largely remains.

http://leninology.blogspot.com/2009/08/race-mixing-is-communism-or-race-is.html

Offline Gabry Ponte

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Re: Race Mixing = Communism?
« Reply #1: November 23, 2010, 08:17:59 AM »
duh communism is race mixing. Communism is the mutiny of the inferior people over the superior people.

Offline Jett

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Re: Race Mixing = Communism?
« Reply #2: November 23, 2010, 01:29:08 PM »
duh communism is race mixing. Communism is the mutiny of the inferior people over the superior people.

You don't know jack shit about communism

Offline Postremo

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Re: Race Mixing = Communism?
« Reply #3: November 24, 2010, 09:33:42 PM »
There are various forms of communism. A key point in Trotsky communism is egalitarianism which is bad for whites.

Offline Bob cooper

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Re: Race Mixing = Communism?
« Reply #4: November 29, 2010, 10:47:41 AM »
Get used to race mixing, its the future. Like it or not.
crackers, PLEASE!

Offline Bob cooper

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Re: Race Mixing = Communism?
« Reply #5: March 15, 2011, 12:45:43 PM »
Everyone is a litte mixed- weather or not they now it is another story
crackers, PLEASE!

Offline Fenria

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Re: Race Mixing = Communism?
« Reply #6: March 19, 2011, 07:39:02 PM »
Get used to race mixing, its the future. Like it or not.

Nah, Bob, I think I'm going to stay used to having sex with my Viking Norwegian husband who can trace his ancestry back hundreds of years and popping out little white babies, but thanks for the invitation though.

Offline Bob cooper

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Re: Race Mixing = Communism?
« Reply #7: March 20, 2011, 06:12:05 AM »
Get used to race mixing, its the future. Like it or not.

Nah, Bob, I think I'm going to stay used to having sex with my Viking Norwegian husband who can trace his ancestry back hundreds of years and popping out little white babies, but thanks for the invitation though

first of all, I wasn't inviting you to do anything, thats not how I work, that wasn't my point. Secondly, blacks could probably trace their histories back 100s of years as well if it wasn't for the injustice of slavery that was inflicted upon them and removing them from their roots. Now to this day they're STILL trying to trace them.

Besides, What the hell are YOU WN's going to do about race mixing? you know how many people are mixed (even amongst the so called white man)? Do you all really think you'll be ablwe to enforce a mandate saying someone can't love someone different from them?

How will this be done? How will it be done without risking the lives of those who try to enforce that rule?

I'll tell you what, if someone told me I couldn't be with someone that wasn't my race- I'd make them eat a curb American History X style.
crackers, PLEASE!

Offline Mike Jahn

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Re: Race Mixing = Communism?
« Reply #8: March 20, 2011, 07:59:50 AM »
Everyone is a litte mixed- weather or not they now it is another story

Proof or stfu.

Offline Bob cooper

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Re: Race Mixing = Communism?
« Reply #9: April 10, 2011, 12:46:46 PM »
Proof? I really don’t have anything to PROVE, Chief Jahn, that the world isn‘t already proving everyday.

If you and your croonies would quit looking at the world through sewer googles and get out from behind your government cheese paid for computers- you would see the world changing as I’d just described it- if people such as yourselves hate the blacks and jews so much then leave the U.S. . I must warn you, if you think the race mixing here is bad your little nest that you finches may nest might not be any better.

I will not ‘STFU’ .


Tell you what buddy, how about the whole movement blood test themselves and take a gander at the results! Put up or STFU.
crackers, PLEASE!

BrerRabbitInvictus

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Re: Race Mixing = Communism?
« Reply #10: April 11, 2011, 11:05:47 AM »
These are some loosely connected reflections. There might be something worth watching on Youtube if this gets a bit tortuous or boring.

Race is class - this is the point that won't go away. My cursory look at how the American race 'question' presents itself has always taken me toward two topics: class, and anticommunism. One cannot talk about class without talking about labour, and therefore about how labour is managed, stratified, waged, etc. Therefore, one cannot talk about race, in a Myrdalian way, as if it was just a set of dogma rather than a socially constructed institution with decisive implications for the class structure. How can one talk about the suburbanisation of 'blue collar' labour without considering 'white flight'? And how can the decline of 'blue collar' manufacturing labour be considered apart from 'globalisation', or rather the global stratificaton of labour created by capitalism in the era of white supremacy? Equally, any history of anticommunism is incomplete without at least discussing how it was initially conceived as a racial counter-conspiracy: against the Jews, against Germans, against African Americans, and finally against Russkies plotting to have unfit countries achieve "premature independence". The liberal and social democratic variants of anticommunism did not perform any better in this respect than the conservative variants.

The thread that ties anticommunism and racism at a conceptual level, I think, is the issue of "self-government", ie democracy. In American racial thinking, self-government is a cultural state attained by Anglo-Saxons and Teutons, a condition in which people are able - on account of god-chosenness, race experience, and fine blood lines - to control their primitive urges toward sin. This was not just a conservative position, but a staple of turn-of-the-century progressivism. In contemporary discourse, one doesn't speak of Anglo-Saxons and Teutons but one may, with a certain respect for racial propriety, discuss the prospects for self-government in similarly culturalist and mystifying terms. This is an art that the neoconservatives refined, but it is not just reactionaries who hold to such views. In a very contemporary parlance, the liberal religious philosopher Marilyn McCord Adams has expressed the belief that the persistence of evil proves that people are no more equipped for self-government than they ever were: she, perhaps unreflectively, referred to the spectre of sometimes genocidal 'failed states' as examples of what she meant. Communism, being in theory the most advanced state of self-government available to humanity, represents for such thought both an unrealisable utopia and a recognisable dystopia. For southern segregationists, self-government for African Americans was unrealisable (utopia), and the attempt to impose it would inevitably result in such disorder that some possibly 'totalitarian' dictatorship would emerge to keep order (dystopia).

A notorious image from the history of the segregated south is that of white conservative protesters bearing placards that read: "Race Mixing Is Communism". This image was chosen for the cover of Jeff Woods' Black Struggle, Red Scare (Louisiana State University Press, 2004). I think there is a commonsensical reaction to this, which is to conclude that the protesters were either hysterical and deluded, or instrumentalising a much more widely accepted anticommunist discourse for the purposes of promoting an unpopular racial agenda (I think Woods' case is a mixture of these two). Given the alarmist tone of reactionary propaganda in the US, and given the fact that American southerners have, since the Wilson era at least, represented themselves as the most patriotic Americans of all, these commonsensical conclusions seem to be more than justified. But I think they are wrong. My suggestion is to take the reactionaries seriously. When they said "Race Mixing Is Communism", they meant something important and relevant by it. It is manifestly wrong to think that 'race mixing' is identical with communism, but the claim was not just a ruse, nor was it blind panic. For such people, white supremacy was meritocratic. It reflected the innate, natural differences between people (and, as a corollary, the difference between the white labourer and the white owner was just as natural, if mitigated by blood solidarity). To attack the race system was to introduce a principle that was, to them, a state-sponsored attack on a well-maintained, meritocratic free enterprise society.

In the same way, you'll notice, when bourgeois ideologues want to mystify class relations without reference to race, they reach for the same combination of naturalising and culturalist tropes. Either the allocation of rewards and punishments reflects some innate biological differences between people, or it corresponds to a kind of ethnicity in which class itself is spoken of in 'native' or 'tribal' terms - one's "roots", "tradition", the signature cloth cap, the pub, the East End argot and lifestyle (as described in various sentimental best-sellers), etc. Daniel Patrick Moynihan famously attributed to African American culture a "tangle of pathologies", which he held responsible for inhibiting their social advancement and maintaining them in a state of disproportionate poverty. Similarly, UK politicians are inclined to interpret the polarisation of wealth within Britain's class structure as a result of the unchecked laziness, decadence and sexual promiscuity of the 'underclass'.

One could conclude from this that race overlaps with class in mainly discursive ways, but this would be to miss the point. The point about the "colour bar", whether it operates formally or de facto, is that it excludes non-white labour from certain positions, or substantially reduces their participation in those roles. These positions are sought after for the levels of skill, responsibility, autonomy and rewards entailed in them. But those social facts about the job - skill, responsibility, autonomy and rewards - are interpreted by racist institutions as natural or cultural facts. Thus, 'whiteness' = skill, responsibility, self-government and the rewards those qualities deliver. In much the same way, the socially produced imperative to drive workers harder and extract more free overtime labour is interpreted as a particular expression of one's culture and personality, ie. as a reflection of one's 'flexibility'. So, what race does is not just overlap with class, but constitute it, rendering its demarcations more intelligible in the terms of bourgeois ideology. The imperative of anticommunism in such a system being to defend, with greater or lesser reservations, the balance of wealth and power in capitalist societies, it follows that the disproportionate distribution of non-whites among the unemployed, poor and imprisoned - however lamentable it may be for liberal anticommunists - is not too far from meritocratic justice.

There are other ways to come at this topic, but the basic relationship is as crucial to understand today as it ever was. After all, as Tim Wise has pointed out, the delirious charges of socialism against the Obama administration are not neutral with respect to race - neither Clinton nor Bush faced similar charges over ambitious programmes of government spending, whether on healthcare or on the military. There is surely a sense in which socialism, for some people, "is little more than racist code for the longstanding white fear that black folks will steal from them". If it's not the DVD player, it's nothing less than the country itself that "black folks" are supposed to be eloping with. And a good white conservative meets such a threat as he would any common burglar: gun in hand, trigger happy, fully convinced that the life he is about to annihilate is worth less than a toaster. The defence of property is, in American politics, cosubstantial with the defence of the prevalent racial order. The 'American dream', (a PR initiative floated in the 1930s but really taking hold during the anticommunist hunts of the 1950s), was always white, and so it largely remains.

http://leninology.blogspot.com/2009/08/race-mixing-is-communism-or-race-is.html




OK, I'm confused.  :-\  Who actually wrote this article you posted?



Clearly you copied the whole thing from that wacky Lefty blog that you posted the link to at the end. Did you write it yourself or simply plagiarize it?



I realize that plagiarism runs fairly rampant on the Internet, and, certainly nobody here is gonna try to make a Federal case out of it, but the reason I ask is that I simply can't and won't abide a sneaky little anti who pretends to be a WN.  >:( ;)



Not to sound pissy, guys, but this is *EXACTLY* what happens when you allow antis to roam freely all over the forums, rather than locking them up in a little cyber-ghetto (or jewlag, if you prefer) called "Opposition".  ;)  Why you would choose to emulate the very stupidest thing that Linder ever did on VNNF is, frankly, beyond me.  :-\  Hell, even Linder had the good sense to change that policy after a few weeks, when everybody pissed and moaned about it.



Not that I mind doing verbal battle with idiotic niggers like Bobby Da Boogie Cooper, mind you. I don't. I find it fairly amusing.  ;D  But, you've got to admit that guys like Postremo do present a problem. I mean, what are you gonna do? Allow every one of Kike Shittstein's little "Cognitive Dissonance Operatives" to post freely all over the forum? Pretty fucking stupid, imo.  :(



As for you, Postremo, you could clear up all this confusion by simply telling us, once and for all, where you stand.  ;)  Are you with us or against us?  :-\

BrerRabbitInvictus

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Re: Race Mixing = Communism?
« Reply #11: April 11, 2011, 11:37:34 AM »
Get used to race mixing, its the future. Like it or not.

Nah, Bob, I think I'm going to stay used to having sex with my Viking Norwegian husband who can trace his ancestry back hundreds of years and popping out little white babies, but thanks for the invitation though

first of all, I wasn't inviting you to do anything, thats not how I work, that wasn't my point. Secondly, blacks could probably trace their histories back 100s of years as well if it wasn't for the injustice of slavery that was inflicted upon them and removing them from their roots. Now to this day they're STILL trying to trace them.

Besides, What the hell are YOU WN's going to do about race mixing? you know how many people are mixed (even amongst the so called white man)? Do you all really think you'll be ablwe to enforce a mandate saying someone can't love someone different from them?

How will this be done? How will it be done without risking the lives of those who try to enforce that rule?

I'll tell you what, if someone told me I couldn't be with someone that wasn't my race- I'd make them eat a curb American History X style.



Well, it's a well-known fact that you niggers can't keep your grubby little black paws off the White women.  ::) >:(



You just contradicted yourself, though, when you said that "blacks could probably trace their histories back 100s of years as well" if it hadn't been fo' dem ebil White debbils an' all dey slavery shee-yut, blah, blah, blah. So, which is it nigger? Are White folks all miscegenated or not? Make up your little monkey mind. You can't have it both ways.



Methinks you've been hitting the crackpipe a little too hard lately.  ;) ;D



And, yes, we know all about all of the anglo-mestizos infesting the WN movement, the worst of which is, undoubtedly, the notorious TraitorGlennMiller, but honestly, I can't see how anybody but a whiskey-swilling peckerwood with an IQ less than 100 could've ever taken that crater-eyed, beanery-looking little snitch for anything remotely resembling a White man.  :-\ ::)



Hell, I'm not 100% White myself, for that matter, but what of it? Here in the South, us light-skinned anglo-mestizos hate you niggers every bit as much as White people, and can take you out just as easily, too.  ;) ;D